“Avoid stepping into a great man’s shoes. What happens first always appears better and more original than what comes after. If you succeed a great man, you will have to accomplish double their achievements to outshine them. Do not get lost in their shadow, or stuck in a past not of your own making.”
Fedor Emelianenko, has been considered by many (but not all) as being the best heavyweight fighter in the world for the last eight years (and yet, most people I talk to have never even heard of him).
Several mixed-martial arts publications and websites currently rank Fedor as the No. 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world and many analysts, as well as former and current fighters, consider Fedor to be the greatest mixed-martial artist of all time (sorry…but that honour goes to Bruce Lee).
Rumour has it even that Fedor once stubbed his big toe and wiped out the entire country of Kazakhstan in the process.
Oh wait…that was Chuck Norris.
My bad.
Either way, whether it’s just perception (which is nine-tenths of reality anyway) or fact, Fedor Emelianenko has earned the respect and admiration from his fans as the reigning king of MMA and nobody, not even the great UFC heavyweight champion, Brock Lesnar, can take that away from him…or can he?
And speaking of Lesnar, what’s a guy gotta do to get a little respect around here?
After all, Lesnar does have a record of 4-1 inside of the Octagon (oh wait…that’s just one of the problems).
Lesnar won the UFC heavyweight championship with a record of only 3-1, while Fedor didn’t win his first championship (PRIDE) until he had a record of 13-1 (which included a win over Bobby Hoffman, who Fedor never actually fought, but still got credit for the win on his record).
It is clear that in order for Lesnar to gain the same level of respect and admiration that Fedor currently has, he is going to have to follow a very similar path to success by matching and eventually surpassing the achievements of “The Last Emperor.”
Lucky for Lesnar, I just so happen to have three suggestions that could potentially help him out.
Step One: Fight lots of “Tomato Cans” because many fight fans only respect large, unbeaten records
Unfortunately, it has gotten to be all about quantity in MMA—not quality.
I am starting to get a strong sense that MMA is going to be taking this page away from the boxing industry, which will become an unwelcomed trend that will affect the quality of all future fight cards (Bobby Lashley, anyone?).
Not saying that Fedor doesn’t have some quality wins on his record, such as a prime Nogueira and more recently, Brett Rogers, but let’s be perfectly honest fight fans—there are a lot of names on Fedor’s win record that only add to the conspiracy that has become Fedor’s success in MMA.
Lesnar may only have a few fights under his championship belt, but they are all impressive when you consider his inexperience in the sport and the dominant fashion in which they were all won.
Why Fedor ever fought Tim Silvia for his 30th win is beyond me.
How exactly does that secure and benefit his legacy in any way?
Step Two: Fight Fedor
“Slay the overbearing father, disparage his legacy, and gain power by shining in your own way.”
Sorry, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that Fedor could beat Lesnar. This is a debate that has been raging on amongst hardcore, extremist MMA fans ever since the threat of Lesnar appeared on the horizon.
So why ruin the fun, right?
Fedor refuses to fight Lesnar, not because he is afraid of Lesnar, but because he has more to lose than adding a loss to his otherwise perfect record.
The myth, the man, the legend—all will get flushed once Lesnar destroys Fedor in such a way that it will make Mir’s decimation seem like foreplay.
If Lesnar doesn’t find a way to make this fight happen (hey Brock…hop on a plane and get your big ass over to Russia), he will forever live in Fedor’s shadow.
This must become Lesnar’s top priority No. 1, or he will absolutely regret it.
Fedor knows this.
Step Three: Stop stirring up so much controversy
“The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated: In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you.”
Some fans refuse to believe that Lesnar is as good as he is because they don’t like him as a person. They refuse to root for a guy who behaves so ignorantly.
Then again, Lesnar was never likely going to be fully accepted as a result of his involvement with the WWE anyway, so knowing this likely hasn’t helped Lesnar with that rather large chip on his shoulder.
Lesnar had a shot at redemption after he got sick, which from a public relations standpoint, almost never happens, and he absolutely blew it.
He had better start volunteering his time at the Sick Kids Hospital or something, because his whole attitude of not caring what the fans think, or whether or not they like him, will be something that he will look back on in his life with disappointment.
I know I initially stated three suggestions, but this one is for sure the most complicated.
There is no easy solution for Lesnar’s ailing relationship with the fans, especially for a champion who publicly appears to care less.
Yikes.
.
I just hope that at the end of their careers, we will remember these two men as they are, instead of how we wanted (or needed) them to be.
By my standards, Fedor is a simply a better “champion” than Lesnar, and that has nothing to do with wins and losses.
Respect. Honour. Attitude.
.
These are my opinions. If you don’t like them…I have others. You can now check them out at www.combatsoup.com
Completely disagree at the p4p fighter. Fedor is not facing top level competition afforded to him in his weight-class PERIOD! Yes back in 2005 it wasnt questioned, but as time goes on and new, bigger, more atheltic heavyweights are coming up through the ranks, questions are beginning to emerge, why? Because Fedor is not testing himself against ranked fighters #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 all of which happen to be within the UFC, and it has remained this way since the fall of Pride. Fedor claims he has nothing to prove, a fighter should always have something to prove, he should be silencing critics on a regular basis to enusre why he is not just the p4p king, but #1 in his own division.
You look at BJ Penn he has basically rinsed out all competition in his weight class, the same can be said about GSP at WW and Anderson Silva and MW. LHW Machida is questionable BUT he is facing currently set to have a rematch with Shogun at UFC 113, which is my point, Shogun is the best opponent possible for Machida to fight at this time, a win for either fighter will lead them to reign supreme over the LHW division no questions! How ever Fedor constantly has his critics because there are many questions left un-answered, yes in 2005 you were possible the best fighter in the world, but what about today? 2010?! That plenty of time for rankings between fighters to change, and the 5 fighters directly below fedor he hasnt competed against. In fact he isnt facing the top ranked heavyweight in strikeforce, Fedor is rumoured to be facing Werdum, and we know what happened to him last time he was in the octagon at the hands of JDS.
I've said many times.. Brock at 10-1 will be greater overall than Fedor's 34-1
He's already finished more top 5 HWs than Fedor and very soon will have beaten more top 10 HWs than Fedor. Fedor's greatest wins were decisions over Nog and Cropcop. Brock's win over Mir is already more impressive than those. Fedor is fighting whoever they can scrape up while Brock competition is only going to get tougher.
Brock will go down as the only MMA fighter ever to not have a padded record.
Let see..
Fedor at 10-1
Hasdell
Yanagisawa
Hoffman
Sobral
Schall
Apostolov
Arona
Takada
Lagvilava
Lazarov
With a “loss” to Kohsaka. I know.. I know. But if he gets to count a “win” against a guy HE DIDN'T EVEN FIGHT, I'm counting the loss.
I see 1 major name in there, Sobral. Not bad, but not hall of fame
Very Possible Brock at 10-1
Kim
Herring
Couture
Mir
Nog
Carwin
Mir
JDS
Velasquez
Carwin
Hmmm.. 8 top 10s. 3 Champions. Most likely a lost of actual stoppages in there. That's ALREADY better than Fedor's 34-1.
Fedor will always win the “legacy” argument. But Brock could easily have a better record in 3 years
I don't think there is a lot of disagreement between Fedor fans and nonfans, just misinterpretation. The term 'great' and 'best' can mean different things for people.
Fedor would probably lose to Brock but I think that Fedor will end up having a more watchable highlight reel. Fedor always looks like the underdog based off physiques and so he gives hope to chubby guys.
Brock is a more dominant fighter but NOT more exciting than Fedor. People confuse watchability with talent.
“Why Fedor ever fought Tim Silvia for his 30th win is beyond me.”
The same reason Nog fought Sylvia 5 months before Fedor did, because Syliva was a game opponent. Sylvia was fighting for a UFC belt, but 5 months later he is garbage? The real thing that made Sylvia a quote 'can' was the Ray Mercer loss, which was basicly Syliva walking into a left hook at the start of the fight.
Across his career when Syliva lost it was almost always in the opening seconds of a fight, so its not like a shock he got KOed so quickly and his chin was always suspect. Walking into a pro boxer's left hook with MMA gloves on would end most fighter's night.
This isn't a defense of Fedor (the man lost my respect when he went to Strikeforce), just a rail against revisionist history and a slight defense of Tim Syliva. While not even close to an all-time great, Syliva was a legit champion (to say he wasn't completely discredits the mid-2000s UFC heavyweights) and was a game fighter.
“Sylvia was fighting for a UFC belt, but 5 months later he is garbage?” Well in fairness, I always kinda thought he was garbage. When he was the champion, it was a definite low point in the UFC HW division. It was so embarrassing in fact, it drove Randy Couture out of retirement to fix the problem.
Otherwise, hope you enjoyed the article
Have there ever been good heavyweights around? How can Fedor's record be 'padded' when there have never been guys that could challenge him. Tim Sylvia and Arlovski were 'garbage' and they were dominant during the HW dark days. Couture took the belt away and did everything he could to fight Fedor but the UFC wanted no part of it.
Fedor could have fought UFC (Wes Sims, Frank Mir, Brandon Vera) title contenders and they wouldn't have been better than what Pride had at the time. Frank Mir has gotten better since then and he would have been a legitimate challenge for Fedor back then.
You make an excellent point Mitchell, Fedor beat the best available to him. Period.
I can appreciate why fans of his get so frustrated. What else was he supposed to do? He fought the best at the time…that's impressive!
The problem then comes from trying to compare apples to oranges.
Who fighters have fought in the past is to a point, very irrelevent.
Brock would win today (assuming he was healthy enough LOL)
I guess my point would be then if Sylvia was garbage and in consistent contention for a UFC bet, then how can we say the UFC was full of legit heavyweights and PRIDE was not?
You've said it, Fedor beat the best available to him, but clearly even you think in mid-2000s they were better than Tim Sylvia.
I agree that Fedor fought more than his share of throw away fight, but thats what MMA was in the early 2000s. I think Brock is well on his way to being an all-time great and I think Fedor is on the decline, but can't we like both of them?
I think we can.
“then how can we say the UFC was full of legit heavyweights and PRIDE was not?” – who is saying this?
When Silvia was the UFC HW champion, the talent was absolutely in Pride. That was a dark time for the UFC as far as I'm concerned, which makes me wonder even more why Fedor would fight Silvia later on. The guy's a can imo.
Great article. I have become frustrated with many MMA fans that place Fedor on this unreachable pedestal. Simply mentioning the name “Brock Lesnar” in a forum can bring forth vile and vicious name-calling and personal attacks. God forbid you have a different opinion! Watching Fedor's fights I have seen many holes in his game and I believe it is simply a matter of time before he is caught. Don't get me wrong, I have tremendous respect for Fedor, but at the end of the day he is only human. Unfortunately, many fans that are so emotionally involved with Fedor, theycannot wrap it around their brains that there is a good possibility that he could very well be dominated by a force known as Brock Lesnar.
I like how you stir the pot. I don't disagree with everything in this piece; it's pretty good.
Way to get the Fedor brigade all fired up. LOL.
Good stuff as usual James.
You know that I am a big Lesnar fan, but also someone who respects what Fedor has done with in the sport.
I would not go as far to say that Lesnar can or will surpass Fedor's legacy but he does have a great opportunity to become one of the most dominate forces the sport has seen and he will be a key figure in MMA's ability to crossover.
I actually think Lesnar's current relationship with the fans is great. He is a polarizing figure and often that is much better than simply being loved and revered. His effect on the fans base draws people in, whether it's to see him succeed or fail all eyes are fixed on him.
Good job JR, ..but i thought i told you not to feed the trolls, or in this case the Fedor zombies…they wont listen to logic or reason..they are blinded by their unbridled passion for a guy who has padded his record off of little Japanese boys, and ex UFC offal's….
And yes Fedor continues to duck the best ….because once he fights the best and loses to the best , he can no longer be referred to as the best ..straight up…!
No fear of that ever happening however , because he chooses to keep fighting guys like Rogers and Werdum–who have already been proven worthless by other guys like Dos Santos.
…Anyhow good luck, you had better bring some silver bullets, and some crucifixes, and maybe flame thrower or two..because the Fedor zombies are tough to kill..and once you explain to one the real facade behind their hero, 10 more show up who have no clue what they are even talking about..its just merely a jealous rant..spouting the same bullshit.
Fedor is the best ever, Fedor cant be beaten, blah blah blah…i say horse shit..let him come to the UFC and prove it !!…or go back to Siberia and die..!!
Thanks for the read my brother !!
Mr. Ryan, are you stirring up the pot here?? HA.
I hope the fact that I'm a proud member of the Fedor brigade doesn't spoil our internet friendship….=)
Ok so I'll admit, I haven't gotten through all the comments, but I'm going to do this anyways:
Fedor won his fourth fight against Ricardo Arona.
4 fights later he beats Renato Sobral.
Another 4 fights later he defeats Semmy Schilt, Heath Herring, and Big Nog (the first time).
That leaves him at 13-1. Not bad, plus do any of us even know that much about Fedor's earlier competition to consider those opponents “cans”?
For his 15th and 16th victory he defeats Fujita and Goodridge.
18th and 19th he beats Coleman and Randleman.
So far only a couple of “cans” getting in the way here…..
20th fight he defeats Ogawa in the semifinals of a tournament, clearly proving he wasn't “fed” that fight……just how the brackets turned out…..
21st/22nd he “no contests” and then defeats Big Nog for the second time in his career…..
23rd is against a no-namer…….but
24th fight, he beats a very game Mirko Cro-Cop (one of the best heavyweight fights ever in Pride)….
All of us remember Zulu….japanese freak show fight…..it happens but after that he goes on a string of wins against decent fighters: 26th Coleman again, 27th Mark Hunt, 28th Matt Lindland…..
From there, Hong-Man Choi, Tim Slyvia, Arlovski, and Rogers…..
So out of 33 fights, he fought 18 solid opponents…that's not including any of the lesser known japanese fighters……I'm sure there were at least a couple that were legitimate…….So let's give Fedor another 2, bringing that 18 to a 20…
So over half of his opponents were quality…..disproving the “fed can” theory……
Ever since his American debut, he is only going to be fighting quality…..not to mention his dominance in Sambo……….he's a small fighter in his mma division too…….
The guy is at the top of the mountain…..You won't see Fedor getting submitted like Brock……You will never see Fedor get dominated in a fight………all of this is known, the rest for Brock is all speculative………What will happen to Brock in 10 more fights?
It's just hard to compare fighters with just a discrepancy in their records…….We know what Fedor can and can't do…….Brock just doesn't have enough fights to sway me either way……I'm not totally convinced…….
I'm glad our sport has these types of problems though……Either way it's going to be exciting watching it all unfold…….
Good stuff buddy!
I'm **liking** it…….
LOL Thanks Joe, if the rest of Fedor's fans could articulate themselves like you have done, I would say he would be better off.
“So over half of his opponents were quality…..disproving the “fed can” theory……” — I don't know that you have disproved the theory exactly, but certainly you have made a strong case.
My reference to “Tomato Cans” was not entirely a shot at Fedor, but at what I fear is a new trend in MMA. I mentioned Lashley because right after he beats Sims, Sims was deemed unfit to fight Silvia??? LMAO!! Wow!
Even at half – the argument is always that Fedor has gone unbeaten in 31 or whatever, and Lesnar gets much less credit for the same reason – not enough fights.
I say – look at the quality of recent opponents and wins. Forget about the past. Who Fedor fought 8 years ago is irreverent to me anyway.
Thanks Joe
Well done James! Another article with some redonkulous comments….there are some real doozies in here!
I tend not agree with everything your said, but I don't think you are logically a douchebag. Meaning, your arguements are valid.
In these cases I tend to choose Fedor over Lensar, strickly based on the fact that Lesnar just doesn't have enough fights yet. He only fought 4 people. But I'm not mad that people think Lesnar can be Fedor.
It's like LBJ and MJ…Jordan is the best player of our time (in my opinion), and LBJ has a lot more to do, no matter how good he is, but I find it hard to believe we'll see another player like Jordan again in our life time.
Its a lot simpler than you're making it. To supplant Fedor as the “greatest Heavyweight in MMA history,” Brock and the UFC already have the first part lined up: A nasty gauntlet of contenders the likes of which nobody has ever seen.
Beat the winner of Carwin/Mir. Then beat the winner of Velasquez/Nogueira vs Gonzaga/Dos Santos.
If Brock wins his next two fights by stoppage, then step 1 is complete: Dominating wins over elite MMA fighters.
Step 2. If humanly possible, put together a fight with Fedor and beat him by stoppage. Ideally, Fedor goes undefeated until the fight with Brock. That would diminish a lot of “yeah but Fedor in his PRIME would have destroyed Brock …” arguments. But you'd still get them no matter what you do.
Step 3. Run up a 20 fight consecutive win streak. Sure it's not the same thing as Fedor's current 26 fight win streak, but if you complete steps 1 and 2 then it won't matter quite as much. But if you want to be considered the best ever, you have to demonstrate it over a long career of wins. Winning 20 in a row should be a reasonable expectation, and at the end of a win streak that long, pretty much nobody will be saying “yeah but Fedor was the best ever.”
In order to supplant Fedor, you have to duplicate what he has done, and do it better than Fedor did. That's a tall order, and Brock already has a legit loss to Frank Mir that will forever diminish his legacy. The worst you can say of Fedor loss-wise is that Rings was psychotic about stoppages for cuts, it was an illegal blow, and Fedor was not really hurt. He'd have demolished TK if the fight hadn't been stopped (which he proved in the rematch.) That one loss out of 33 fights is hardly a loss at all. Brock tapping out so hard that the ref half-way mistook it for Brock trying to hit Mir in the leg — that's hardly a “controversial only loss in his career.” And that hurts the case for Brock Lesnar being the best ever right out of the gate.
But complete MY steps 1, 2 and 3, and Brock is the best Heavyweight ever. Here's the thing. I don't think Brock can do all that. But if he can, I'll happily throw my vote his way for “best Heavyweight MMA fighter in history.” Right now, Brock's fans are promoting is “legacy” based upon nothing but potential. Brock seems to have the tools to be the best ever. But seeing is believing.
Brock is a great athlete who could one day end up a great fighter but you aren't letting reality cloud your vision. Fedor has fought and beat more top contenders through the years than Brock has veins on his cock sword not to mention all those cans (completely disregard how many cans have upset favorites in the last year let alone mma history). Fedor has also never lost, you can argue this point however you like but all true mma fans already know the details to both his 1 supposed loss and 1 draw both of which were bs. Brock though, he's tapped to Mir and not even the best Mir to ever fight.
So lets talk about what Brock needs to do to ever be considered anywhere near Fedor's league.
He has to beat the winners of Nog vs Cain and Mir vs Carwin (I think your wishfull thinking will end here because Carwin is a far better fighter than Brock who will crush Mir and Brock this year.)
He would have to beat Fedor.
Chances are he would have to beat Fedor again.
He would have continue with his 1 loss into the realm of 20+ fights.
All Fedor would have to do to solidify his #1 status as best MMA fighter thus far is retire.
Brock is a joke technically as far as MMA skill goes but he is the best example of what pure size and athletic ability can do in the cage. If he keeps at it and can get half the skill Fedor has now he could very well be considered the pound for pound best fighter one day. Until then people will keep writing rediculous stories trying to downplay Fedor to build up Brock. Good luck with that, us true MMA fans that have been watching since the beginning know the truth.
James,
I love you writing, even when I do not agree with what you are saying. I had a few things to comment on your article, but felt that doing so in the comments section would become too convoluted with other peoples input. I hope you dont mind.
I get the impression you dont like Fedor. I understand that. Many people dont. I will also readily admit I am a PRIDE fanboy. But when i read some of the things you wrote in this article, i felt like you were going from only opinion.
No fighter can claim to have an unpadded record. Anyone with a career over 20 fights will have many so called “cans”. What i felt you didnt take in to account was the timing of these fights.
Respond if you wish. havent had a god debate in quite some time.
Cheers, and another fine article. I just dont agree with you
Hi Brighton,
I love that you can disagree with what I have said and not seemingly hate my guts for it LOL
Thanks
Believe it or not, I DO like Fedor. I also like Brock. It’s as though fans aren’t allowed to like both for different reasons sometimes.
I think Fedor is a better champion (Stoker didn’t like that). I think Brock would beat Fedor in a fight (many others didn’t like that either).
Personally, I don’t get too much into the whole, “who fought who and when” debate. I find irrelevant.
When I first started to write this article, it wasn’t even about Brock LOL I got about halfway through and changed it up.
Initially, it was about Bobby Lashley. If ever there was a guy padding his record, it’s him. I started to then wonder if maybe we wasn’t just trying to emulate Fedor – as far as how he “perceived” him. Then I started to think about the debate between Fedor and Brock and wondered if maybe some of the same things were applicable as well.
The strongest argument against Lesnar that I usually hear is his inexperience. I just think that he is too dominant to disregard as “never would he beat Fedor.”
I’m not saying he would, although I “think” he would – but to say “NEVER” is just crazy
Cheers buddy and thanks for the private message – you’re right, too much going on over there, I’m probably going to just ignore most of it LOL
Cheers
J
I'll be honest, James…
Your Step Three is comical–in terms of: can Brock Lesnar ever develop enough purity of intent to suddenly become a class act? Of course not. Lesnar is very unlikely to succeed with Steps One or Two either. Brock possesses about as much humility and integrity as does his boss, Dana White. In a nutshell, being big, displaying loud and obnoxious behavior, and being a one dimensional fighter who defeated a retired 18-10 light heavyweight and a washed up Heath herring, and split with a decent but so-so Frank Mir, might con the UFC-is-great-everything-else-sucks zombies, but hardcore MMA followers who know the game won't fall for Dana's UFC kiddie brain-washing routine.
However, I will say that Lesnar is a perfect fit for the UFC, whereas Fedor is the perfect fit for MMA.
Joseph, I think I would have preferred if you lied to me LMAO!!
I won't discount Lesnar as a fighter because of his flawed personality, WWE background or his ties to the UFC/Dana White.
I also won't place Fedor up high on the pedestal simply because people feel the “NEED” to believe in something beyond what he is, which is a man (not a GOD).
Only one way to settle the debate I guess and it's not by Fedor trying to negotiate light years beyond his worth.
Other than that, it's great to hear from you my friend, and I hope all is well
Cheers
James,
I'm going to respectfully disagree with a number of your opinions based on your own idea that 9/10ths of reality is perception. I'll state for the record that I'm a Fedor fan but more for the kind of person he is outside the ring than in (although I do enjoy his fights).
The one common element I consistently find in Bleacherreport stories and the replies they generate is that people like to use their perception of what a fighter thinks as reality; 9/10ths of the crap discussed is based on this. To give you a few examples from your own article (not trying to pick on you in particular, just trying to show my point): Early in your article you mention “Several mixed-martial arts publications and websites currently rank Fedor as the No. 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world and many analysts, as well as former and current fighters, consider Fedor to be the greatest mixed-martial artist of all time…” Here is a perception that Fedor himself has disagreed with… he has said in the past that he is not the greatest because he hasn't fought everyone, yet we continue to include him in the debate of who the greatest is. Do you honestly think Fedor thinks he beat Bobby Hoffman? I'd say no, yet we use it as a point in arguing his record.
Your next point about Fedor do nothing to secure his legacy by fighting Tim Sylvia is again based on the perception that Fedor is trying to secure a legacy to begin with. While I'm sure there are fighters out there whose ultimate goal is to “secure thei legacy”, I think there are a good number of fighters who don't give this as much thought as we do. Your organization setting up th fight and giving you a paycheck is a more likely reason for taking a fight, and not just in Fedor's case, yet we perceive it differently so we have ammo for our arguemnt that a fighter is trying to pad his record to secure his legacy.
I may be wrong but Fedor seems like a person who enjoys fighting and the different challenges it brings. He defends MMA as not being violent and seems to view it as a tough sport that should be played with the rules of sportsmanship that other sports live by. This leads me to seriously doubt the general perception that he worries about how much he has to lose by Lesnar beating him. We can debate all day on the reason the fight is not happening but in the end it's all speculation and we'd probably never touch on the actual reasons which could be as simple as Fedor thinks Dana's a prick and won't lift a finger to help his cause …could be something different but that's my perception on the matter, and arguing the idea like it's fact is a waste of eveyones time.
Moving on to Lesnar, I think it's overly evident that he could care less what most people think and this isn't an act. Securing his legacy may be important to him or challenging himself physically may be his driving force, but he would undoubtly drop out of the UFC as quick as he came, without ever facing Fedor, if it was in his best interest and I don't think he'd worry too much about his legacy. Again, my own perception on him, but right or wrong it's not evidence to be used in a pissing match of who's the best of the best.
Where we do agree is that in the end, I hope too that people will remember them for their actual accomplishments and not what we perceive they did or didn't accomplish. As I mentioned at the beginining, I don't mean to be picking on your article in particular, it's people using perception as fact and trying make a point based on it.
Joe
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the comment, at least you have the class and respect to disagree with me in a sincere and rationale manner. I knew I was gonna be in for a long day when the first comment stated that I am a “douchebag” for writing this article. LOL (uhhh…that’s MR. Douchebag to you…punk!!)
I think that compared to a lot of debates that I have read on this issue, this one is pretty tame. What it fails to do I suppose, is give exaggerated credit to Fedor and his “God-like” accomplishments (the biggest problem with Fedor and why the arguments are created so strongly against him has nothing to do with Fedor the man, but his many extremely irrational and biased followers). It wasn’t as much to tear Fedor down as to just say that Lesnar deserves more credit than he gets.
When I first started writing this article, it didn’t even include Brock Lesnar LOL. I started off discussing Bobby Lashley, who clearly is padding his record in my opinion and after watching a few videos of him and reading a few articles, I became so annoyed at the fact that he’s trying to do what I perceive, which is emulating the “myth factor” that Fedor has created.
Fedor may not have calculated that strategy for himself, but it’s a model that others could follow if they were so inclined to try – thus my suggestion for Lesnar to fight more cans (not saying Fedor did, but obviously implied it for the readers to reach their own conclusions) because the only reason that I can tell that fight fans make a case against Lesnar is because of his limited record. If he had 20 fights under his belt, he’d be the same fighter, just with a bigger record and maybe, just maybe, people would respect him more or take him more seriously. It’s a guess…
I know the arguments on Fedor’s behalf. I know the arguments against him. Some fans hate Brock Lesnar. Others love him (rarely is there an in-between).
Me…I like them both (is that allowed? LOL). I just haven’t bought into everyone else’s hype and instead I choose to make my own opinions.
I won't discount Lesnar as a fighter because of his flawed personality, WWE background or his ties to the UFC/Dana White.
I also won't place Fedor up high on the pedestal simply because people feel the “NEED” to believe in something beyond what he is, which is a man (not a GOD).
My quotes on his media and social perceptions were mostly taken from Wiki. and I did that just to encompass the general way in which he is perceived.
Fedor might admit that he never beat Bobby Hoffman (why would he?…he didn’t!) but the argument by his worshippers is always that he went undefeated minus some lame excuse on why the cut stoppage didn’t count. If the stoppage doesn’t count, than why should the win? I’m just saying that this article was as much social commentary as anything.
I’m sick of the arguments and frankly, I could care less who the best ever is. I personally don’t think that it’s either of these guys and whoever I do think it is (Harold Howard? LOL) is just my subjective opinion, but guess what Joe? I am entitled to it…as a writer and as a fan, and I am no more right or wrong than anyone else.
People telling me I’m wrong just makes their arguments sound desperate and motivated by a personal need to believe in something greater than their own dull and boring lives.
I’m big on never believing everything that I hear – especially if it comes out of the government or media (radio, internet, books, magazines, etc). I use my sixth sense (my Judge Judy sense) to tell me if something makes sense or not. I question sources. I challenge opinions. If it doesn’t make sense, it’s not likely true.
Dana White says that Fedor wanted this and Fedor wanted that…meanwhile, Fedor and his management team say similar things…here’s the deal – we’ll never know the truth and it doesn’t matter anyway.
An article such as this creates debate and discussion. In turn, maybe I throw a challenge out there, like “Fedor is afraid to fight Lesnar” or something because of some deep psychological need to be remembered as the best (and I don’t care how humble Fedor is (or you think he is), he is a professional athlete. A performer. An entertainer. A businessman. Preserving his legacy at this stage in his career may be a new priority for him. From a business standpoint, I don’t honestly see why it wouldn’t be. Fedor is his own “brand” and he has worked his entire life to create it.
Anyway, maybe someone reads this and says, “damn, the perception is that Fedor is afraid – he better prove he’s not.” Voila!! We get the fight we want.
Okay, okay, crazy I know, but what can I say Joe, I have a vivid imagination
I don’t sell my ideas as the truth, I sell them as “my” opinions and speculation, and hopefully, people find them thought provoking because they encourage healthy and intelligent debate, such as the one that we are having right now.
I mean no offence to you or to anyone in the Fedor-Nation by saying that I think that Brock could beat Fedor in a fight – but I do think that, and I can’t change my perception because it’s not popular opinion.
I won’t.
Hope you understand.
Cheers
James
how can you compare their “10-1″ records? fedor started in russia in the late 90's/early 00's. do you remember where mma was back then?
lesnar came into the ufc with a name. that, combined with his immense natural talent, skyrocketed him into contention much faster than a 'normal' prospect working through the ranks. in addition, look at the saturation of talent in the sport (and particularly the hw division) now compared to 1999/2000-era russian mma.
i think fedor would lose to lesnar. i also think your method of attempting to illustrate this notion was very poor.
My role on Bleacher Report as a Featured Columnist is to specifically talk about all things Brock Lesnar. I am fascinated by the social phenomenon that is his love/hate relationship with the fans.
Just prior to that article, there were a couple others on B/R that spoke of the Brock-Fedor debate. I can't believe how crazy!! LOL people get over this non-existent rivalry.
For fun, I threw my hat into the fiery pit to see what sort of response I could get and to basically let everyone know (comment section) that it's okay to like both men for different reasons. calling Brock “the best of all time” is absurd (and I don't think I did
but I still think that Brock is a beast of a man who could beat Fedor today.
My only point about Brock was that he'll never get respect unless he fights and beats Fedor – but even then, there are so many people who will be just as satisfied hating the big man until the day that he dies (hopefully of old age and not in an Octagon
Just setting up some debate on an issue that I could care less about, because I am personally trying to understand it better
Hope that helps to add perspective.
Thanks again
So let's see here,
You honestly believe that Lesnar, with his all-of-four-wins is gonna beat Fedor? How and with what…his one dimensional game? Stoker has proven himself mentally challenged–and a Zuffa-Zombie, so he gets a pass. But the rest of you? All I can say is, I hope you snap out of it by the time Dana starts handing out the spiked cool-aid.
Fedor great fighter. It was upsetting watching him to lose.Some MMA fighters think that sambo weaker than Jiu Jitsu.Rematch will happened